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Matt Singer works for Forward Montana. He also is a partner in DP Productions, a small, Montana-based T-Shirt company.


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Seeing the Forest for the Trees: Tester's Jobs and Recreation Act

by: Matt Singer

Fri Jul 17, 2009 at 16:10:11 PM MDT


Jon Tester just rolled out legislation to afford permanent wilderness protection to Montana lands for the first time in...well...a long time. I think that's pretty darn cool. My reading on the Internets tells me that there are a number of people who disagree.

To some extent, I don't know a ton to say about this bill other than that I trust the process.

Q: What was the process here?
A: A dedicated stakeholder process lasting years.

The individuals critical of this process so far tend to complain about big, important groups being included and smaller ones being excluded. In other words, the process has been one inclusive of politically relevant organizations with some ability to help pass or block legislation. And, unlike some of my friends, I'm not inclined to think that Montana Wilderness Association, Trout Unlimited, and National Wildlife Federation really have it in for wilderness. I think the opposite, actually, knowing a number of their staff and board members, who have always struck me as committed to the cause.

It is nearly banal to say that the recent history of public land politics in the West in general and in Montana in particular has been one of divisiveness and intransigence. In recent decades, this crucible has given rise to a new approach to these issues: stakeholder negotiations, attempts at deep rather than representative or direct democracy. Stakeholder processes are almost inevitably fraught with difficulties: who decides whom to invite, who facilitates, and who ensures that the sum of the narrow interests adds up to something approximating the public good?

At the end of the day, saying that a U.S. Senator should facilitate the process, decide whom to invite, and work to craft something good for the whole state is a pretty good argument since that Senator is ultimately politically accountable in the best way any of us know.

A process that involves wilderness advocates, motorized users, and logging mills is a good one to me.

And to George Ochenski, whose column this week maintains that Jon Tester didn't get support in his election from people who work in the woods or enjoy ATV or other motorized uses, I've got two responses:

  1. Politics has to be about more than "dancing with the one who brung you."
  2. I'll point to my friends at the Montana AFL-CIO. Working people of this state, including mill workers and loggers, definitely did support Jon Tester. And a whole lot of those folks comprise everything from backcountry quiet recreators to the people who ride the damn noisy snowmobiles that I personally, like many others, can't stand.

Lots of folks, inevitably, see a stakeholder process that doesn't include them as an illegitimate one, but the important thing to keep in mind here is that while we've got representative democracy, which we still do in the form of the Congress, the stakeholder process defines a beginning, not an end.

A smart stakeholder process will, of course, create a framework strong enough to survive all-out assaults on the bill. This is a process known since the beginning of organizing time as coalition building, a process that is inevitably give-and-take.

There's still lots of opportunity for input on this bill, input that will no doubt improve the quality of the legislation. But let me give a small round of applause for the process that led to this bill getting rolled out.

Update -- George Ochenski correctly points out in comments that I meant union millworkers in the above post. My bad.

The fundamental point, though, is that I think George is wrong to characterize Tester's backers as uniformly supportive of wilderness expansion and is wrong also to conclude that the job of elected officials is to bend to the will only of their supporters.

Those arguments don't really disappear.

Besides, from what I can tell, if politicians only listened to their supporters, no politicians would listen to George, since he seems not to support any of them. I think he's someone worth listening to, even if I rarely fall in the same camp as him.

Matt Singer :: Seeing the Forest for the Trees: Tester's Jobs and Recreation Act
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Unlike some of your friends (0.00 / 0)
you seem to like back-room deals that cut out public debate and participation and instead favor insiders deciding for the rest of us, I'm afraid.

Just like the decision to cut out the public  from the health care debate, we see a similar decision to cut out the public in the public lands debate.

In both cases the terms of the debate are drawn up in secret and then fed to the public as if it's an open and transparent process. Only you seem fooled by this.

Calling 100,000 acres of mandated, public subsidized cut on currently protected lands "cool" sounds very naive to me.

I'm not sure where you get your information from, since some of it is incorrect. There has been legislation introduced every year for the last 10 years at least "..to afford permanent wilderness protection to Montana lands..."

Tester just hasn't supported it.

I think the title of your Blog is somewhat misleading. Perhaps it would be more accurate to call it "Corporate Interests Are Always Our Partners in the West - Views From Corporate Dependant Dry Land Democrats" might be a little more truth in advertising.

There isn't a whole lot of "left" left, as far as I can see. Maybe the DLC would consider funding you?

I agree that the internets are left, and aren't near as cosy and comfortable with, or as quick to sell the farm to the corporations as you seem to be, Matt.

We don't see AHIP and Roseberg Lumber as our friends and partners. We tend to see them as the people who are ripping us off and who keep ripping us off.

We see them as our oppressors. You see them as your partners. In that way, you are like a lot of Americans. Many Americans also don't see themselves as oppressed, no matter how oppressed they may be.

I think that's what most differentiates you from your friends. I may be wrong, but I think that's it. What do you think?



I don't think everyone in those rooms are my partners or friends (0.00 / 0)
I think they're stakeholders. And major stakeholders who aren't at the table generally do a pretty good job these days of jettisoning any change.

That's what I think.

I also think there's a difference between real Montana small business owners, lumber mills, genuine grassroots conservatives, people who like their snowmobiles, etc., and the AHIPs, NFIBs of the world, etc.

And you're right, I don't see myself as oppressed.


[ Parent ]
Curious (0.00 / 0)
One thing that baffled me was the inclusion in the process of not one, but two recreational vehicle groups.  I can't make sense of the math... How is Montana represented by one sportsman's group, but ATV's and snowmobiles both need to be there?  I recreate alongside other fishermen and hunters on Montana's public lands and wilderness all the time, and recreational vehicles are usually few and far between.  It's clear when they're around though, 'cause they ruin the experience and generally stink up the joint.  

[ Parent ]
Ol' jed would like to know where you see (0.00 / 0)
a significant
difference between real Montana small business owners, lumber mills, genuine grassroots conservatives, people who like their snowmobiles, etc., and the AHIPs, NFIBs of the world, etc.

I've watched the sagebrush rebels--in my experience mostly small businessmen, lumber industry men--owners and out-of-workers, genuine grassroots conservatives--anti-abortionists--like Ric Jore and Rob Natelson, would be censors--like Dallas Erickson, and so on.
When up close and personal these--and most--people are not offensive.  
Seems to me an organization man like yourself would prefer to deal with the AHIPs, and NFIBs of the world.  
When it comes right down to it, Matt--I'm guessing you're just like most of the rest of us.  You want to trust folks like Max and Jon and Barack.  They told us what we wanted to hear, we elected 'em and now we want to believe they were not just blowing smoke up our asses.
We grew up believing America was a great nation--we were served by selfless people whose ideals were interchangeable with our own--things would just keep getting better--and there is somebody out there watching over us...      

[ Parent ]
What's that word ... (0.00 / 0)
fallibility?   no ... saleability ... no ...

oh yeah ...malleability.  


[ Parent ]
You seem to believe that there are superior stakeholders and inferior stakeholders when (0.00 / 0)
it comes to public lands.

See, I think that there are citizens, and we are all equal stakeholders. I don't get or understand this elitist idea that some citizens are more privileged than some other citizens.

What law, idea, or concept do you base your elitist views on? The divine right of snowmobilers or the special exceptionalism of Pew funded citizen groups?

I would think citizen involvement would be a good process. Not some set of super stakeholders who are magically anointed as the chosen ones to be part of the process while excluding everyone else.

Yeah, I was pretty sure that you don't see yourself as oppressed. And it figures, given your views on both health care and on wilderness.



It is called organizing (0.00 / 0)
That's what I base my concept on. Large organizations -- and TU, NWF/MWF, and MWA, plus the ATVers organizations are large organizations -- are different from single citizens. Voluntary associations mean something because they represent aggregated interests of individual citizens who have chosen to be represented en masse on some particular issues.

Now it is quite possible, as a handful of citizens are alleging, that these organizations have betrayed their membership and that they will face member revolts and that the grassroots can now convince Jon Tester to pull the plug on this bill. As is evident, nothing has passed yet and there is still lots of time for public debate on a bill that has only just now been introduced.

Maybe instead of whining about a patently fair process, critics of this bill should focus on the substance and let people know what is wrong with the bill. So far I see some stuff I like and some stuff I dislike (funny how that often is the case with major legislation), but bitching about how some some logging companies helped write a bill is 100% unpersuasive to me.

And, yes, I think I'm among the least oppressed people on the planet. Glad you at least agree with me on that. I've got an outlet for my thoughts, a living wage, and an opportunity to state my disagreement with my government without threat of retribution. Since I haven't started considering it my personal right to get unbreakable promises from elected officials or to interrupt U.S. Senate hearings, I don't feel like my rights are being violated.


[ Parent ]
Having extraction corporation agents and the leaders of 3 milk-toast conservation organizations (4.00 / 1)
and the leaders of two motorized vehicle in the back country organizations write a bill for you is called organizing? When the Repos have the banks write bills for them to pass, that's organizing?

I thought it was called law by the few for the many.

It's the same back room decisions that the health care issue is saddled with. Manipulation of the many by the few and then pretend it's an open process.

I don't think it's working so well anymore. People have wised up to the scam.

I just read the Tester/ Wood products industry/Sage Brush rebellion bill in PDF format late last night. I want to get a hard copy so I can jump back and forth from it to the other law it references so as to really get an understanding of what it does and what it means, at least before I start whining about it.

I'm kind of busy right now calling up folks for our Montanans for Single Payer "Follow The Money" rally we are holding next Friday July 24th at 12 Noon in front of Blue Cross Blue Shield at the corner of 39th and Stevens in South Missoula.

We got a handful of people out at the last rally in front of Baucus' office (only 200+) and I'd like to increase turnout for this one. So it might be a while before I get back to an analysis of the Tester Extraction Bill.

I'd invite you to come out and protest the obscene amounts of money the health insurance industry bribes our elected officials with, but i realize that you don't feel personally oppressed by that industry and see health care reform in a more abstract way; A useful issue for attracting attention and funding for your organization and as a means to electoral power. I mean you are welcome to show up, but if you don't, I understand. It's not personal with you and you are probably busy extolling the virtues of the largest recipients of all that bribery money anyhow.

 


[ Parent ]
ouch! (0.00 / 0)
I cry foul, Steve W. Your implied motives for Matt's opinions are way out of bounds. I know Matt personally and fairly well; your accusation that he's bought and sold is way off-base. You know, maybe people have different ideas?

[ Parent ]
Nobody is ever bought! They don't need to be bought. (0.00 / 0)
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it. (Upton Sinclair)

I can't possibly be that succinct, but the idea is sound - our minds conform to the forces that have power over us. That's why I recommend self employment.


[ Parent ]
I didn't accuse Matt of being bought and sold. i pointed out that by his own statements that (0.00 / 0)
his motivations for being politically involved in the health care issue are not rooted in fighting perceived oppression, since he himself readily admits that he doesn't perceive that he's being oppressed. For Matt, according to what he wrote, oppression isn't personal for him, it's abstract.

I will concede that I could be entirely wrong about his motivation for being involved in the issue of health care , or partially wrong about his motivation.  I apologize to Matt for stating it as ";A useful issue for attracting attention and funding for your organization and as a means to electoral power." I should have explicitly added 'perhaps' to imply conjecture, because that sentence fragment is indeed conjecture on my part. Realistically i have no way of knowing his motivation other than that it isn't because he feels oppressed by the insurance industry, or oppressed by anyone else for that matter. That I know for a fact because Matt said so.

I've met Matt a few times and I like him. I also like and appreciate that he runs a political blog, and that he allows people who don't always agree with him (including me) to comment here. Most of all, I like that I learn things from participating on LITW blog.

i would also welcome Matt's participation in the "Follow the Money" Rally on Friday, and if he were to show up with a bunch of Forward Montana folks (or solo) i promise I won't question anyone in attendance' motivations. :)

I think it would be a very good thing for Matt to attend the Follow the Money Rally, both from a cynical purely political point of view as well as from a solidarity/mutual support point of view.

As a person who supports both a single payer health insurance solution and political pluralism, I know that if people who support the public option were being cut out of the process, I would stand up and say, "No, that's wrong to deny people the right to participate in the debate!" and I would call on my leaders to allow them into the debate in Congress, at political conferences and summits, and in all ways possible. I'm not afraid of ideas or debating ideas and as such I feel no impetus to exclude ideas.

I respect Matt that he allows us into the debate on his blog, and I encourage him to join us in publicly denouncing the influence of big money on our political system on Friday.

And bring your friends.



[ Parent ]
I don't know about MWA or NWF (0.00 / 0)
but Trout Unlimited, over the last few years, has shown that it's inclination is to be silent to many things - including public access to public waterways - because it protects their donor base.

That's all.


connections rule and one's viewpoint depends on (0.00 / 0)
whose stake you are talking about. matt has a lot invested in helping get tester elected and unless he is insane he is not going to burn that bridge. is he?

politics just be's that way mostly.

United we stand, divided we fall.

power to the polite people!


Where to start? (4.00 / 1)
As to your reply to Ochenski, my thoughts are:

1) save the last dance for me (thems that brung you), and
2) Ochenski referred to "Loggers for Tester campaign rallies... and the massive timber mill vote." Neither of which occurred just as he reported. Don't twist his words up to discredit his analysis. Sure, many AFL-CIO workers forestry workers voted for Tester. But that's not what he was referring to. If you think that AFL-CIO workers are an important enough stakeholder to warrant inclusion, why wasn't the union included instead of Smurfit-Stone, a multi-national corporation?

But beyond that, you applaud the process, not understanding the prescriptions of the bill. I daresay that the "divisiveness and intransigence" of which you speak has extended into the "deep stakeholder" process that Tester has put together.

Fortunately, your trusted process with deep stakeholders must now contend with shallow stakeholders from an untrusted process (like the people who developed NREPA and have advocated for it for almost 20 years). And these are federal lands, not just given over to the utilitarian uses by local good-ole boys. There are land values that were not considered by Tester's team, and those values--from both the left and the right--will attack his process and outcome. Remember--the coalition that will fight this bill is the same coalition that helped take down John Melcher for getting into bed with the oil industry. If Tester is seen as alienating his progressive enviro faction, they will turn on him too.

Once again, I see the democratic party's willingness to slide to the center in order to create the illusion of doing something important. While there are worthwhile elements in this bill, it's goals are mutually exclusive: designate wilderness or open lands to logging and ORVs. There will be many of us who would rather see this bill die, because it will not be amended to our liking, rather than see it passed. For many of us, the downside of the bill far outweighs its upsides. The status quo is far preferred to the outcome from this bill. For many of us, the public (and natural) good is best served by a conservative approach to land management: let wilderness be wilderness. 6 billion years and counting, and still going strong...

Any bill that attempts to legislate outputs in a Forest Plan (mandated logging) is going to meet stiff opposition, and possible legal challenges. Conversely, when you talk about "permanent wilderness designation," there is no such thing. What Congress designates, it can undesignate. Like the Wilderness Study Areas--that already had the protection of a wilderness designation--that Tester will release for logging and ORV uses.

And you talk about approximating the "public good." I find it amusing that a bunch of utilitarians sitting around a timber corporation table  trying to write legislation to manage a couple million acres would have the "public good" at the foremost of their thinking. "Public good" is not always defined by coalition building and give and take.  "Public good," to me, is economic happy speak for what a bunch of economists think is good for everybody. But economists self-admittedly don't know diddly about wilderness values, biodiversity concerns, ecological corridors, global warming, or a whole host of other concerns that have absolutely nothing to do with the "public," and everything to do with what is not "the public."


Slide to the center? (4.00 / 1)
The Democrats slid to the center back in 1989.  
Since then they have moved so far right that Eisenhower Republicans--even Joe McCarthy--would have felt threatened by them...

[ Parent ]
Dems (0.00 / 0)
always run far more to the left during primaries, and then shift rightward during the generals to grab centrists. But what is galling is how they march to their perceived middle in order to govern. Republicans, on the other hand, run with the base to the right in the primaries, shift to the middle of their constituency for the generals, and then move back to the right to govern. They're not nearly the chameleons that dems have become.

But ya, I get that the dems have been steadily marching to the right, leaving the left to hang out and dry. Makes it pretty easy to criticize Obama, Baucus, Schweitzer and Tester and most of the rest of the dem party, as it isn't the role of us indies to swing in the breeze. It may be easy to criticize those you didn't vote for, but those whom you did vote for shouldn't take those votes for granted. Because there is no party loyalty to hold the left and indies with the dem party in '10 or '12. I'd just as soon vote 3rd party again as vote for a dem who acts like a republican.

I hope the Montana dem party takes notice during the logging bill, climate change, and health care dustups that their core of died-in-the-wool dems is nothing without the left and independent support.

Ya, Matt. I'm talking to you.


[ Parent ]
Public good has a specific economic meaning (0.00 / 0)
quite distinct from the one I'm using here. A public good in economics is a thing, which would be referred to as "a public good." I'm talking about what might also be called the common good or (less to my liking) the public interest. It's a political science concept, not an economic one.

As for my reference to the public good here, my explicit point is that the sum of narrow private (and even some public) interests -- loggers, mills, recreators, and conservationists -- is less than the common good, which needs its own correcting element in the mix. I thought that this role is best served by politically accountable elected officials.

Jon Tester, after all, can be voted out of office, so there's a very clear level of accountability there. Of course, if voting decisions are typically about narrow self-interest, we need to hope that representative democracy over time corrects for the common good or that some other force does...


[ Parent ]
Well, if you think the common good (4.00 / 1)
is best reflected in legislation by taking the decision making out of the USFS's hands, and putting it in Congress's, then more power to you. And I'm not just referring to the allocation decisions. I'm referring to Congressional mandates for outputs that have no basis in reality, and run counter to accepted ecological principles.

Tester's bill does several things that to me would be contrary to the common good. It begins to dismantle the role of the Forest Service in its planning process. Decisions and mandates have been shuffled over to Congress and to local special interest organizations. In this way, common good becomes perverted to a political good and/or a private good.

Furthermore, the bill directs the USFS to allow government agents to sit on the citizen boards and participate in the decisionmaking process. Hence, the work of our government employees is taken out of a public setting, where it can be watched and challenged, and put into the backrooms of local special interest organizations and businesses. We are witnessing the beginning of the end for NEPA and NFMA with a process like Tester's. Tester has begun the outsourcing of pubic land management to private business and individuals. This is nothing more than Reagan-esque privatization at work here. What you are referring to as deep democracy is nothing more than a subterfuge of almost 50 years of progressive environmental legislation. It's interesting how quickly progressives lose their green stripes when corrupted by political process.

I can already hear Denny Rehberg figuring out how to speak out both sides of his mouth, because he loves the mandates and privatization, yet isn't willing to accept wilderness allocation levels as high as they are--even given that there is little timber in Tester & Co.'s ice and rock designations.

Now I wouldn't equate public interest with common good, because common goods refer primarily to human goods and needs--or are measured with human scales. Public interest can encompass a wide range of goods--including the need for vast undisturbed tracts of wilderness left to self-regulate, and corridors for wildlife to migrate unimpeded.

Unfortunately, those who have been trained in economics approach land management philosophy severely handicapped. I would ask how you would figure the intrinsic value of the wilderness areas that have been released in the Tester bill in your equations of what constitutes the "public good" as defined by your notion of a common good or public interest?

That's the difference between the way you are looking at this process, and the way I am looking at it. I look at what the natural world is losing, and you look at what humans are gaining.


[ Parent ]
I've seen this process at work ... (4.00 / 1)
What did Marc Racicot call it? "Consensus Councils", I think. It's a railroad - you take malleable liberals and put them in a room with hard-boiled right wingers, install a "facilitator" who supports the right wingers, and then you guide them to a predetermined destination.

Here in Bozeman we had such a gathering on local trail use- it was comical. Horseback, biking and motorized users worked together against quiet trail users. The facilitator was intimidated by the right wing groups, who refused to yield anything. The best the quiet trail users could do was to refuse to yield as well, but the "process" required that any undecided questions be turned over to Forest Service, who ruled in favor of the bikers and motorbacks. Quiet trail users lost damned near everything.

Their best bet was to stay out of the process, to set up a table out in front of the meeting hall and provide education and information, but not to participate. If you buy in, you'll be screwed out.

(Montana Wilderness Association, when the group had a collective set of balls, walked out of Racicot's Consensus Council.)

By the way, the reason we don't have more Wilderness in Montana is Max Baucus. He's conspicuously absent here, but surely present.

Matt, people who know you well say you're very smart, and no doubt about that, but at this blog the word that continually comes to mind is "malleable".


More Clinton-style triagulation (4.00 / 1)
This "stakeholder" process, like most, is about taking power away from the public participation process and dismantling public-agency policies that limit corporate control of our public assets.  Make no mistake, this is an expansion of more of the (Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush) same - neoliberal outsourcing, privatization and deregulation.  And guess who's picking up the tab?  Tester's trying to buy votes with your taxdollars.

Those who know what's wrong with Baucus' approach to healthcare reform, will easily see through Tester's disingenuous rhetorical chiches.  It's a subsidized logging bill, pure and simple, an attack on pubicly owned and managed national forests, our federal judicial system, and an assault on the rightful owners of our national forests, the American public. Seems like a pretty steep price for some (500,000 acres of Montanas 6.5 million; 7.7%) uncontested "rocks and ice."

It's worked for Schweitzer and Baucus.  Progressive Democrats get screwed again.  I'm beginning to think they like the abuse.

 


Max (me too!) Baucus has a free run until 2014; and (0.00 / 0)
Farmer Jon will not be called down until 2012.
In the meantime we can vote for Denny Rehburg or some Republican-lite in 2010.  Talk about taxation without representation..!

[ Parent ]
NREPA (0.00 / 0)
This Wilderness Clown Act in Congress has been going on long enough. It's time to pass the Northern Rockies Ecosystem Protection Act and end all nonsense about consensus of "user groups" on "public lands." Mixed breed "Jobs Act/Recreation" nonsense is just that...nonsense.

Sha na na na, sha na na na na,
Sha na na na, sha na na na na,
Sha na na na, sha na na na na,
Sha na na na, sha na na na na,
Yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip
Mum mum mum mum mum mum
Get a job Sha na na na, sha na na na na...


Say what? (0.00 / 0)
Bob,

You say Montana,
I say banana.
You say banana,
I say Montana.
Montana, banana;
Banana, Montana.
Let's call the whole thing off.

Banana:  a kind of fruit.  

Now that's a "process."


Is that, like, you know, a song... (0.00 / 0)
by Hannah Montana?

[ Parent ]
Tony Bennett sang songs. (0.00 / 0)
So did Bing Crosby and Perry Como.
Where is Hannah, Montana?

[ Parent ]
Check out video/audio from the press conference (0.00 / 0)
The Great Falls Tribune's Lowdown blog has video and audio from the entire press conference for Senator Tester's Mandated Logging Bill announcement last Friday.

If you have any doubt that this bill is really an effort by self-selected special interests groups and timber corporations to mandate industrial logging and give tens of millions in US taxpayer subsidies to Montana's timber industry (during the steepest decline in lumber consumption in US history) you need to watch the press conference and listen to the Q/A between Senator Tester and reporters.

You can watch the entire press conference (in three parts) at:

http://mtlowdown.blogspot.com/...

Also at that link, you can download audio of the entire Q/A between Senator Tester and the reporters. As you'll notice, Senator Tester was asked (and pretty much entirely ignored or danced around) a bunch of important questions regarding how all this mandated logging will pay for restoration work given there's no demand for lumber.


Union Loggers? (0.00 / 0)
Say Matt, since you took the liberty to single me out for pointing out the lack of "Loggers for Tester" rallies during his campaign, I was just wondering, where, exactly, are all those "union loggers" you're talking about?  Or union mill workers?

Sorry to weigh in so late to this comment thread, but I was off in the REAL wilderness, backpacking into the silence and beauty of real old growth, real diversity, and real clean water. We USED to have real champions for wilderness, like Lee Metcalf, who left us the legacy of Wilderness Study Areas that this bill DE-DESIGNATES.

Now Matt, I know you haven't been in this state very long, that you really don't know dick about the history of the wilderness debate here, so I can't get too down on your rather uninformed post.  But dude, lots of us, including a lot of the posters who have de-bunked your baloney, have been in these trenches for DECADES.  We testified on RARE I and RARE II before ATVs ever existed and the motorized users rode Honda Trail 90s.   We fought to save the roadless areas that may have become wilderness given real leaders in Congress with vision for future generations instead of tap-dancing in the winds of political expediency.  And we are pissed to see our decades of work dissolved in a "forest bill" instead of finally getting the full protection of BIG W Wilderness.

You know, Matt, I suspect your problem is that you don't spend enough time in the wilderness or you'd never write stuff like this post.  Kind of tough to write about what you don't know about, isn't it? When's the last time you saw real old growth in the forest?  Did you ever wonder how the forest managed to survive for eons before we decided to start "managing" it?

Maybe stick to health care reform, Matt, where there's plenty of room to scuttle back and forth over that bright yellow line in the middle of the road and leave the wilderness debate to those who actually know something about it.  


Say, what? You Trust THIS process? WTF, dude? (0.00 / 0)
Matt, I have better stuff to do than to spend too much time ripping apart your clearly uneducated post on forest/wilderness/logging policy and public lands management, but I do want to address a few key issues (and I'm a pretty fast writer and/or "cut and paster") so here it goes.

First, for someone who hasn't been involved one bit in the "process" how in the hell do you know enough to tell everyone that you trust the "process?"  Oh, because you "know a number of their staff and board members, who have always struck you as committed to the cause."

Well, hate to break it to you Matt, but unless your friends are named Tom France (NWF), Bruce Farling (MT TU) or John Gatchell (MWA) you didn't know much about this "process." These are the self-selected individuals who decided to meet in secret (in some cases without even notifying their board of directors or others within their organizations) with a few of the prominent mill owners in the state to craft their "Partnership" proposal.

They did this by openly and brashly excluding everyone else from the process, including in some cases their own board members and long-time supporters, but especially those that have a different view about national forest management or logging of public lands. They figured they could use their political connections to by-pass normal public participation requirements and go around emerging collaborative processes in this state that are truly more open and inclusive, to get what they want.  For the mills, that is more access to cheap, taxpayer subsidized timber and millions of dollars in government handouts to build biomass energy facilities to essentially give the mills free power...to produce more 2 x 4s that nobody wants or needs.  Of course, the fact that Tom France used to be the boss of Tester's key staffer  on this issue (Tracy Stone Manning) only helped grease the wheels further.

And your notion that this is about the big groups who are "politically relevant organizations" versus small groups isn't accurate either. But then again, given that you don't work on these issues or follow everything that's been going back and forth on this for years, I really can't fault you (but then why do you claim to trust the process??).

Anyway, the fact of the matter is that most of the "big, politically relevant organizations" don't support the Beaverhead approach. Heck, for proof of that, look at the Partner's own website (http://www.bhdlpartnership.org), which ironically went off-line this morning. If their site is ever up again, look at the supporters. How many other conservation and environmental groups do you see there?  Absent in the list is Sierra Club, Natural Resources Defense Council, Defenders of Wildlife, Greater Yellowstone Coalition, Greenpeace, Center for Biological Diversity, Friends of the Earth and the Wilderness Society.  Those are some pretty big, "politically relevant organizations."

Furthermore, don't you find it rather strange that the three groups who worked with the timber mills to try and deliver logs through Tester's Mandated Logging bill haven't actually worked much on the logging issue in this state for about ten years? I mean, I can't tell you the last time I've even seen MWA, MT TU or NWF's name in comments for timber sales on public lands. These groups meeting in secret with the timber mills to deliver logs would be kinda like the WildWest Institute meeting in secret with Senator Baucus and then holding a press conference to tell everyone we've settled the health care debate!

In the fall of 2006, a few months after the "Beaverhead Partners" revealed their plan crafted in secret (and before Tester even took office) I was part of planning committee for a National Meeting on Forest/Wilderness Collaboration that brought together 70 conservation leaders from around the country with a diversity of perspectives on collaboration to try to crystallize this discussion.  We invited France, Farling and Gatchell, but they refused to attend, which is pretty much par for the course for these folks.

Among the 70 diverse conservation leaders there was universal condemnation for the "process" used by the Beaverhead Partnership. We developed a set of Collaboration Best Practices for the Conservation Community (which can be downloaded at: http://www.americanlands.org/a... and I would encourage interested people to check out).

One thing the 70 diverse participants also did was come up with a "Red Flags to Look for when Considering Entering into a Collaboration."   Suffice to say, the Beaverhead Partnership was guilty of breaking each and everyone one of these:

* Participation requires organization to compromise fundamental values;
* The key issues require legislative or legal determinations outside the scope of  the group;
* There is little or no incentive to solve a problem, meet a deadline, or engage adversaries;
* Fair access to independent expertise to understand or consult on technical issues is lacking;
* Diverse representation is not available, or key individual representatives cannot participate;
* The convening agency lacks commitment to process; 
* The resource is too significant, sensitive, or unsuitable for negotiation. 

Finally, if you have any doubt that this bill is really an effort by self-selected special interests groups and timber corporations to mandate industrial logging and give tens of millions in US taxpayer subsidies to Montana's timber industry (during the steepest decline in lumber consumption in US history) you need to watch the press conference and listen to the Q/A between Senator Tester and reporters that John S. Adams' posted on his blog http://mtlowdown.blogspot.com/...

In the audio you can download, notice how Senator Tester was asked (and pretty much entirely ignored or danced around) a bunch of important questions regarding how all this mandated logging will pay for restoration work given there's no demand for lumber.

Well, one major concern with this bill is the notion that we can use money generated from logging to pay for needed restoration work. That strategy has largely failed to pay for much restoration work even when lumber demand and prices were high. The fact that the Forest Service in MT and ID has over $100 million in "shovel ready" restoration work just waiting for funding proves this point. Much of this restoration work was actually part of these former "stewardship logging contracts." The logging got finished, but there was no money left to do much of the restoration work.

Now that there's no demand for lumber and lumber prices are low and we're in the the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression this "stewardship logging" strategy is even more bankrupt.

For example, the Beaverhead Partners have already proposed a test pilot project called the East Deerlodge Valley Project. The Forest Service analyzed the project area and found 3000 acres suitable for logging. Apparently, in a private meeting with the Forest Service, MT TU Bruce Farling and Sun Mountain Lumber's Steve Flynn objected to "only" 3000 acres of logging and instead have proposed 10,000 acres for logging. I have the actual maps the Forest Service produced. Ironically, the maps are called the Sun Mountain Lumber Additions.

Funny thing, for every acre of more logging above 3000 acres, the project actually loses more money. How such an approach pays for all that restoration work these "partners" keep touting is a real mystery. Hopefully the public and the media continues to ask these types of tough questions.

I support forest restoration jobs, sustainable communities, wilderness and wildlife habitat as much as anyone. I also support keeping the public in public lands.  Montana had a few senators in the past that also stood up for these values. One of them was named Senator Lee Metcalf. We have a wildlife refuge named for him as well as a Wilderness area. The fact that Senator Tester (by listening to France, Farling, Gatchell and Stone-Manning and excluding everyone else) is actually proposing to undo and de-designate some of the very same Wilderness Study Areas that Senator Metcalf and a host of Montanans fought so hard years ago to protect should really tell people a little bit about this supposed "trusted process." Thanks.


Wrong again, Matt (0.00 / 0)
Two things:  First, I never said Tester's backers were "uniformly supportive of wilderness" -- those are your words again, Matt, and you're putting 'em in my mouth, again.  Enough of that, ehh?

Second, you failed to elucidate which union millworkers supported Tester, since there are NO union loggers that I ever heard of.  Which mills are still unionized, Matt?  Not Plum Creek, that's for sure, never has been.  Louisiana Pacific -- the predecessor to Sun Mtn?  Nope.  Don't think Sun Mtn is, either. Pyramid?  Don't know, but most small mills aren't unionized. Champion did have union millworkers who supported the 1988 Wilderness Bill that was vetoed by Reagan and brought Conrad Burns to the Senate, but they've been out of business for years.  So, how's about it, Matt?  Which mills and how many union workers are you talking about? I'm saying, by and large, timber workers voted for Burns because Burns was all about "getting out the cut," slashing environmental regulations and reducing citizen involvement in forestry decisions -- think Categorical Exclusions, here, one of Bush's man Mark Rey's (former timber lobbyist) favorite deals.

As for supporting politicians -- if you do it blindly, that's your choice.  I applaud them when they do the right thing and openly question or criticize them when they don't.  For a lot of us out here, Matt, that is not a difficult thing to figure out because we value POLICY a lot more than POLITICS (i.e., campaigns and parties).  Is there something wrong with that?  If you go back through history, you'll be surprised at how much good some Republicans have done -- Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, all the way up to Nixon, who was a bum, but he stopped the "assimilation" policy for Indians (which was intended to drive them into white culture), "opened" trade with China, and actually signed into law foundational environmental laws like the Clean Water Act and the establishment of the EPA.  On the flip side, Democrats have done lots of good stuff, too, but lots of bad stuff -- just like Republicans.  You know it, I know it, and a lot of others do, too.  You just seem to demand blind loyalty, which is, in my opinion, a skewed off-shoot of the Vietnam Era "my country, right or wrong" -- only it's "my party, right or wrong."  No wonder more and more people are becoming Independents.  


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